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ljharmitt
Member
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Posted: Fri Apr 18th, 2008 09:21 pm |
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I want to see a comparison between the vtwin 1000cc "supersports" e.g sv1000s, tl1000r, tl1000s, rsv, tuono. etc all of them. Performance, track, user friendliness, overall fun eg stunts wheelies.
See what you can do 
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tomaso
Member
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Posted: Thu Jun 26th, 2008 06:20 pm |
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Motorcycles are very subjective things. One mans perfect motorcycle is another man nightmare. What magazines say is not the complete answer. As it depends on what you want to do with it.
SP1s are available for similar prices to SV1000s and VTR1000s but are very track focussed and if you live down a bumpy lane it may not suit you 
I've cut n pasted a couple of reviews I stole from Visordown / TWO
HOW DO you fancy a V-twin 1,000, good for a genuine 155mph, set in a sleek alloy beam frame offering more than passable handling, decent brakes and damn fine build quality for a starting price of £1,500? Or you can quite easily catch one with fairing damage for a grand.
That's a deal hard to pass up - and it's a deal that's repeated week after week because we're talking Honda's brilliant VTR1000 Firestorm here, Honda's repost to the Ducati phenomenon of the late 1990s. Their homologation specials, the SP-1 and SP-2, were of course the ultimate no-holds-barred answer that did indeed slay 998s in WSB, but you're talking £4-5k plus there. Buy a Firestorm and you'll get at least three-quarters of the performance package for one-third of the ticket. Now that's a steal.
The Firestorm ran at the forefront of the late '90s V-twin revolution that swept through superbiking in response to Ducati's legendary 916 and Monster ranges. The Japanese, never ones to shy from a fight, fought fire with fire - the first salvos being Suzuki's brilliantly wayward TL1000S and Honda's altogether more balanced Firestorm.
The Firestorm matched the base model 916 literally blow for blow: 996cc, 110bhp, 155mph top speed, 193kg. Only the packaging was a lot less racey, a lot more streetbike, and while attractive from certain angles, it was nowhere near as drop-dead beautiful as the 916. But it did offer the usual Honda attributes - a wonderfully strong motor, year-in year-out dependability and a build quality that said 'this bike will last'. And bless those engineers in Hamamatsu for they even managed to engineer a seriously cool booming exhaust note. The Firestorm was a V-twin with an edge, but also with civility and that Honda wing. So while the radical TL1000S went by the wayside, the Firestorm sold in droves.
Of course it wasn't perfect. Honda had cut corners to keep costs down and the suspension was soft and pretty crude. You'll want to know what modifications, if any, previous owners have made. The forks are typically revalved and the springs changed for better kit, such as WP or Hyperpro. An alternative fixit, and a popular one too, was to throw in a set of conventional 1996-97 FireBlade forks, although we'd stay away from such radical botching. The shock too can be reworked or replaced - you're looking at a lighter spring and better valving there.
But the simple suspension in no way held the Firestorm back. In fact it meant you could keep the bike absolutely pinned over bumpy surfaces, and the bike is extremely comfortable on motorways. However a suspension sort-out would also sort a carburetion problem that extremely hard braking could bring about. With the standard set-up the kind of hard braking you can do on-track could lead to the fuel in the carburettor float bowls swashing forward - leaving the jets sucking air - and so leaving the Firestorm running on one. We've never ridden a Firestorm that this has happened on, but plenty of owners will attest to it.
The silliest thing about the whole bike is the tiny 16-litre fuel tank, which holds more like 14 litres and therefore gives the bike a range of about 90 miles. Fuel stops are annoyingly frequent - especially since the motor's a thirsty one (post 2000, among other subtle changes, the tank grew to 19-litres). But once you've got your head around these, you'll find the Firestorm is truly a cracking bike. With the suspension changes it becomes a real sweet road bike and bloody handy track tool to boot. The motor is intoxicating. On standard pipes it sounds good, on aftermarket jobbies it's borderline symphonic - nothing like the flat bark of the Suzuki TL, much more 916.
Back in 1997 the Firestorm pretty much hit the spot. But it was quickly engulfed by the waves of fancy twins that followed, the SP-1, Aprilia Milles and such. And when the tide turned back again in favour of fours it was left high and dry. So today, almost forgotten, it offers great buying. Only unlike the potential horrors that face the buyer of a decade-old 916, the Firestorm purchaser can buy with some confidence in the VTR mechanicals.
The Firestorm is not, and never was, very sexy, with TDM900-levels of styling and appeal. But if you can get around this it would make an ideal first big bike for those looking to make the move to 1,000cc power for the first time. Spares are plentiful and due to the bike's semi-faired style, they're all also very crash-proof. Storming indeed.
SV1000
While the faired SV isn’t to everyone’s taste – its sporty riding position can put a bit of a strain on your wrists making it a pain through town – the naked version comes with flat bars and a comfier and much more upright riding position. And like the SV650, this makes it a much better town bike.
Sitting on the SV1000, having just spent the last week riding around on the naked 650, the extra size of the 1000 is instantly apparent. Where the 650 almost doesn’t feel like a proper bike because it’s so small and lightweight the 1000 has a lot more physical presence about it. It only weights an extra 18kg over the 650 but it feels bigger and chunkier in a reassuring kind of way, especially if you are quite tall.
The riding position is slightly more aggressive than the 650 because of the extra size of the bike. Your legs are pushed slightly further apart and the bars feel a bit wider than the 650’s, which combined with the extra weight makes it feel sturdy. Also the pegs are set lower than the faired SV1000, putting you in a straight-backed, straight-armed riding position which is actually quite comfortable.
On the move the extra weight isn’t very noticeable. The 1000 feels more planted through corners than the 650 thanks to its extra weight and is slightly harder work to change direction on but you would only really notice this if, like me, you swap straight from one bike to the other. Compared to other 1000s the SV handles very well. It’s not as racy as Aprilia’s Tuono but has that typical SV reassuring feeling about it that gives you confidence. It just wants to be your friend and you know that there are no hidden surprises waiting to catch you out. Through fast bends it’s very competent and planted and in town the large steering lock and low seat height, which feels lower thanks to the narrowness of the bike, makes manoeuvring it at low speed very easy.
With the SV1000 being a large capacity V-twin naked bike there are going to be the obvious parallels drawn with Suzuki’s other naked twin, the ill-fated TL1000. This isn’t very surprising really, seeing as the SV uses a re-tuned version of the TL’s motor. But where the TL was a total hooligan bike the SV is far more civilised and friendly.
Far from just bolting the TL’s motor in a new chassis and junking the controversial rotary rear damper Suzuki has made sweeping changes to the TL engine for the SV. In some ways it has removed a bit of the character but in others it has improved the lump hugely.
The power is delivered in a smooth and totally constant flow with no kicks or power bands. Fans of the TL will consider this dull but in reality it makes the SV a very easy and enjoyable bike to ride. The fuel injection is just about perfect when the bike is moving but I did find it a bit rough at very low revs on a constant throttle. It wasn’t a massive problem and is more of a problem with the V-twin engine configuration than anything else, and anyway the Suzuki’s injection system is far better at low revs than other large V-twins such as Aprilia’s Mille.
Now, despite the engine having its character slightly removed there is one major advantage of the constant power delivery of the motor. It wheelies like a bastard. The SV1000 is the easiest bike I have ever ridden to wheelie. Just dip the clutch in first and the front is up and from then on the smooth power makes keeping it there a doddle. Maybe there is still and element of the TL hooligan buried in there somewhere after all.
RSV1000 Mille
After nearly four years of waiting, what finally arrived in 1999 was so spot-bollock on, it was amazing. Here was a 60° V-twin (much more compact than a 90° V – or ‘L’– twin in the frame), with an aggressive and characterful (not lumpy) power delivery.
It piled out 128 claimed bhp, which equated to around 112-115 in rear-wheel terms. With Aprilia already umpteen titles through their 125 and 250cc GP haul at the time, you had a beautifully polished and organically curving ally beam frame – just like the chassis seen on the factory 250s. It worked, too, helped by the competent Showa forks and Boge shock on the launch RSVs, although the early standard machines were later bettered by the all-singing Öhlins suspended RSV-R.
The brakes worked too, albeit not stunningly well but, in short, it was a brilliant first effort for a big capacity sports bike. Offering more oomph and comfort than a Ducati 916, even if the package wasn’t as good looking, Aprilia said it was being restrained with the first Mille. It had a weird three headlight face, a huge dustbin silencer and sometimes bizarre colour schemes. It grew on us, sure, and the later SP and RSV-R models built upon the look and added to the spec list, but it never had the visual pizzazz of the 916. But then what has?
Instead the Mille has matured into a practical alternative to a Ducati. An everyman’s exotica, if you will. And with buyer confidence in Aprilia currently at a low, thanks to last year’s lack of confidence and subsequent Piaggio takeover, as well as a generous 0% finance deal on the newer model, prices for these second-hand models are currently lower than they have been for some time. Our advice? Get in while you can, especially with the ‘R’ version.
Clocks
The one part of the bike that looks a bit naff. There’s five buttons in there and you need to thoroughly read the manual to even reset the trip meter or adjust the clock, let alone the shift light, which – when set at 5-6000 revs during running-in – is annoying as buggery. Electrically, the units are fine but you’re asking for trouble if you let the old jetwash in there.
Engine
That 60° V-twin is a monster. Power comes in from 5000 revs, before peaking at around 9500rpm. The twin balancer shafts smooth out any vibrations, and hardly sap power.
Reliability? Generally pretty good, although you should stick rigidly to the service intervals. Some motors have popped oil pressure sensors, so check in the fairing on the right-hand side for any sign of oil. Some over-stressed motors (like ex-MRO Aprilia RSV Challenge bikes) have gone pop.
Forks
Fine on the standard bikes, but RSV-R Öhlins front forks have been known to pop fork seals prematurely or start to weep when grit gets into the seals. Check by pushing up and down on the suspension with the aid of the front brakes and then check each leg for oily residue with a tissue or a finger.
Front Brakes
They’re pretty good on the early base-level machine, rising to very good on the Brembo Goldline-equipped Mille Rs. Later radial equipped machines (Mille Rs, ’02-’03) are just a smidge better still.
Fuel Tanks
Mille-owners in the States have talked of ‘R’ models suffering fuel leakage from the plastic tank. The area around the fuel pump sometimes won’t stay sealed. Original Milles had steel tanks, while the R has plastic. From 2001 the tank altered slightly, to keep the fuel lower down in the frame. All tanks from 2001-2003 are identical and interchangeable.
Clutches
Clutches can be on the weak side, so a Barnett clutch upgrade is highly recommended. Oh, and the clutch fluid always goes black.
Finish
Scratched tail units are the norm, as the bike is so tall. The satin finishes on the 2001-on models can suffer a little from scratching, but apart from that the bikes are very well finished, with the first 1999 machines still looking good
Rear Brakes
Always seemed to lack feel and bite after a while. The trick is to clean them properly and often, fit braided hoses and try
different pads. Carbone Lorraine SBK3s and Bendix SSs are popular. Some people try the SP-1’s front master cylinder for even more oomph at the lever
Tyres
Most owners stick with the original Pirelli Dragon Supercorsas. These and Metzeler MEZ3/4s are adored in the Mille community, as are Bridgestone’s earlier BT56s and later 010s and 020s. The Japanese firm’s later 014s are better still.
Rear Shocks
Check rear suspension/shock linkages for adequate greasing from new.
Owner’s View
Name: Martin Black, 40
Experience: Previously owned a CBR600 and FZR1000
"I bought my 17,000-mile ’99 RSV in summer 2002 for £3500, with its chain dragging along the floor and the starter motor struggling to turn the engine over. The starter needed a sprag clutch which cost around £500 to fix, wiping out money saved on the deal.
The clutch slipped at high revs so I upgraded to a Barnet racing clutch and an aftermarket can and airbox liberated more V-twin growl.
Mileage is up to 22,000 and she's still going strong, although the head bearings feel notchy. I’ve replaced many of the fixings as the originals bolts weren’t of the highest quality - otherwise the finish is as good as the Japanese. Aprilia replacement parts can be pricey though!”
How Much?
Aprilia RSV 1000 Mille SP (1998 only)
Price new: £23,000
Pay now: between £8000 and £12,000 depending on age, mileage and condition. It’s a collector’s item.
Colours: black/red/white
World Superbike homologation special had a limited run of 150 only.
Aprilia RSV 1000 Mille (1999-2000)
Price new: £9400
Pay now: from £2500 to £2800
Colours: red/purple/silver or black
Easily spotted by classic triangular headlight construction
Aprilia RSV 1000 Mille R (2001-2003)
Price new: £8800
Pay now: from £3200 to £5400
Colours: yellow or black
New look bodywork. RSV-R has Öhlins gear for a grand more secondhand. Yum…
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